How Easy is It to Make Echo Characters

Dragonhunter970

The E3 conference has given the clones Dark Pit, Lucina, and newcomer Daisy the term "Echo fighter" so what does that mean in terms of gamplay? The trailer showed a expanding roster-confriming that they have a roster slot so, does it mean anything? And who else may become one?

TCT~Phantom

I am just gonna call a funky Kong echo character right now.

slambros

This is probably a fancy way to term clone characters. The way they brought back the whole roster, it'll probably become one of the only ways characters will be able to join the roster at all.

Dixie Kong should and probably will be one of these Echo characters.

staindgrey

I believe it's similar to what Netherrealm Studios does in Injustice. If you select, say, the Power Girl skin for Super Girl, she gains entirely new voice lines and an altered character appearance, but still plays the exact same. It's entirely cosmetic. They did the same thing with Reverse Flash, Jay Garrick, John Stewart, Mr. Freeze and all the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

So it'll likely be like when you select different costumes for Wario. You just select Marth, for instance, then select his Lucina option. This opens a more realistic path for representation of other characters who would be unlikely to get in otherwise, like Chrom, James McCloud, Blood Falcon, etc.

It's about time they did this.

Pacack · Jun 12, 2018

I'm going to predict some combination of Octolings, Impa, Funky Kong, Alph, Ninten, Medusa, Dark Samus, Isabelle, Jeanne, and Ken.

I believe it's similar to what Netherrealm Studios does in Injustice. If you select, say, the Power Girl skin for Super Girl, she gains entirely new voice lines and an altered character appearance, but still plays the exact same. It's entirely cosmetic. They did the same thing with Reverse Flash, Jay Garrick, John Stewart, Mr. Freeze and all the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
So it'll likely be like when you select different costumes for Wario. You just select Marth, for instance, then select his Lucina option. This opens a more realistic path for representation of other characters who would be unlikely to get in otherwise, like Chrom, James McCloud, Blood Falcon, etc.

It's about time they did this.

I don't think that's the case. Otherwise, the Koopalings would be considered echo characters. I think they're just clones.

staindgrey

Oh, I forgot about them.

Crap, maybe they are roster-spot clones. Missed opportunity, Nintendo.

Even so, the fact that they decided to give these characters a name, then only announce one new one (mah girl!) means there will be more down the road for sure.

CaptainAmerica · Jun 12, 2018

I'm also noticing that some characters (Pichu, Young Link) *aren't* considered echoes. After how well Roy was Luigified...what did they end up getting?

VioletSmashfan

Seeing as a Knuckles Assist Trophy was spotted earlier in one of the videos, Shadow's pretty much confirmed to be a playable fighter as Sonic's echo (which would be breaking the rule on Third Party franchises getting a 2nd character, but with Sonic being so close to Nintendo now, I'm thinking they'll let it slide for Sonic to get a 2nd rep), but we'll have to wait and see in the coming weeks (if Shadow does get in, he's joining my list of mains easily).

We may not have Waluigi time, but at least we get Sonic's shadow in some form.

And what in the world happened to the forums? (and to a lesser extent, my brown color text is gone :crying: )

Diddy Kong

Am calling Impa now. Probably the Skyward Sword version. Ever since I saw ALBW Zelda, I knew this was going to happen.

CaptainAmerica

Am calling Impa now. Probably the Skyward Sword version. Ever since I saw ALBW Zelda, I knew this was going to happen.

That seems extremely likely. Seems like they're referncing each Zelda character to a different game (if Sheik counts as TP), so SS is missing. And she'd be a perfect Shiek echo too

BluePikmin11

I am going to call Octolings being an Echo fighter. Considering that Daisy's popularity likely made her an Echo fighter, I can see Octolings in due to their popularity as well.

VioletSmashfan

I'm also noticing that some characters (Pichu, Young Link) *aren't* considered echoes. After how well Roy was Luigified...what did they end up getting?

Most likely revamped movesets to differentiate between the three (in Young Link's case).

Pichu has different smash attacks and hurts itself each time it uses an electric-base move which is drastically different than what Pika (this also applies to Volt Tackle as well which is a direct callback to both the series Pokedex description and the anime), this also means Pichu will likely be bottom tiered (as he was in Melee).

Young Link has the rapid jab (and finisher) and likely a new final smash to difference himself from Link (the former who also has a new final smash based on his Breath of the Wild look and a new moveset) and Toon Link (who keeps the same stuff from his 2 previous appearances), I'm guessing it'll be the Fierce Deity Mask from Majora's Mask.

CaptainAmerica · Jun 12, 2018

I'm guessing it'll be the Fierce Deity Mask from Majora's Mask.

Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease

Don't think normal Link got too many differences (beyond handedness), but I feel YL could be Luigified a bit.

But if Link's losing his Dark Link and Fierce Deity recolors... or does he have 8 recolors of both tunics?

YL is already shown with a dark recolor, but HW showed us what a realFirece Deity can do.

VioletSmashfan

Pleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease
Don't think normal Link got too many differences (beyond handedness), but I feel YL could be Luigified a bit.

But if Link's losing his Dark Link and Fierce Deity recolors... or does he have 8 recolors of both tunics?

YL is already shown with a dark recolor, but HW showed us what a realFirece Deity can do.

Normal Link got plenty of changes (you can see them clearly in the Direct), including a brand new final smash in the Ancient Arrow.

I'm thinking Normal Link will only lose the Fierce Deity costume (to make way for Y. Link to gain it as his final smash since it seems they are going for the MM theme while keeping his moveset Melee-based) but keep the Dark Link outfit (that is one of his more popular looks and is iconic) and it's a given that Toon Link will keep his Dark Toon Link outfit as well (for the same reasons).

EDIT: Normal Link still has the Fierce Deity as one of his alt Costumes, so that rules out FDM as YLink's FS!

CrusherMania1592

I am going to call Octolings being an Echo fighter. Considering that Daisy's popularity likely made her an Echo fighter, I can see Octolings in due to their popularity as well.

Wouldn't surprise me at this point. Splatoon's a series that's gonna get 2 reps

But I'm scared to even call Dixie a echo fighter when she's not

Inawordyes · Jun 12, 2018

Possible Echo Characters:

Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)
Dark Samus (Samus)
Birdo (Yoshi)
Ninten (Ness)
Blood Falcon (Captain Falcon)
Impa (Sheik/Ike)
Toon Zelda (Zelda)
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon/Ganondorf)
Sami (Snake)
Chrom (Ike)
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)
Shadow (Sonic)
Tails (Sonic)
Dillon (Sonic)
Louie (Olimar)
Alph (Olimar) *has been reported to still be an alt costume, but still*
Brittany (Olimar)
Proto Man (Mega Man)
Glass Joe (Little Mac)
Bald Bull (Little Mac)
Medusa (Palutena)
Ms. Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
Malos (Shulk)
Ken (Ryu)
Akuma (Ryu)
Zack (Cloud)
Jeanne (Bayonetta)
Octoling (Inkling)

Honestly, I'm excited. I know people have their issues with clones, but I personally prefer to have the ability to play as as many characters as possible. Whether they're alt skins or echoes, the more the merrier!

Lady Byakugan

I am hoping for Shadow since Knuckles is an assist trophy. I want Young Link to be more different too.

FunAtParties

This is probably a fancy way to term clone characters. The way they brought back the whole roster, it'll probably become one of the only ways characters will be able to join the roster at all.
Dixie Kong should and probably will be one of these Echo characters.

That's all it is, rebranding

nickabrick1216

With this logic, would Dr. Mario be considered as an Echo Fighter?

FunAtParties · Jun 12, 2018

With this logic, would Dr. Mario be considered as an Echo Fighter?

No apparently not, echo characters are labelled as such on the website. Doc isn't labelled as such. Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy are. Doc actually got some changes.

Pippin (Peregrin Took)

I'm very intrigued by this idea and curious to see how it's going to be implemented.

I saw Lucina in that "ever expanding roster" concept but I still can't help but wonder if they're going to share a spot on the CSS with the base character. Why else would the dev team go out of their way to label them the way they did?

SirCamp

I'm going to be so sad if/when Dixie ends up being a clone. She deserves way better than that.

FrostShock

I'm really hoping Chrom will be an echo fighter, preferably based on Ike rather than Marth so we don't have another Marth. We've seen hide nor hair of Robin's Final Smash, which is what's giving me hope (Robin can have Breath of Ruin as his new FS).

GoodGrief741

Would love Chrom to get just desserts as a semiclone, but if I can get him as an echo then be it.

Three Awakening characters would make people very angry, though.

Kirbeh · Jun 12, 2018

As Zesty and slambros brought up, I believe Echo Fighters is likely just a re-branding of the term clones to hopefully move away from the stigma, though we'll have to see how well that works (which I sadly don't believe that it will.)

And as FrostShock posted, I also hope Chrom manages to get in as an Echo Fighter. It feels like it'd be a move in very Sakurai fashion to reveal him later with something along the lines of "Chrom Gets His Chance!". I mean he did just do the whole "Ridley hits the BIG time!"

As for why some clones seem to be Echo Fighters while others aren't I think it's just based on how different the characters are from the ones they're based on.

Going off of what's been shown, and assuming the rest is the same for now, we have this:

- Electroshock Arm instead of Upper Dash, but they're still basically the same move anyway; the weapon difference is more of an aesthetic change than a functional one. (Well sort of, stat differences, you get the point.)
- No tipper
Both - Minor stat differerences

On the other hand;

- Has a different Down Special; Dr. Tornado instead of Mario's FLUDD.
- Has MegaVitamins instead of Fireballs. And while yes they serve a similar purpose as a projectile they behave differently, whereas DP's Electroshock Arm does not. (It's differences being in KB angle and damage.)
- He has a new Down Air; it's in the video on his fighter page in case you haven't seen it yet.
- Stat differences.

- Retains a multi-hit jab.
- Fire Arrows in place of Link's normal (twin arrows now?)
- Stat and size differences.

- Retains his self damage mechanic
- Different Smash Attacks
- Stat and size differences

As for Daisy, she seems to share all the same moves as Peach as with DP and Lucina with Pit and Marth respectively. My guess is that she'll likely lack the ability to float and will have the usual stat differences such as being a little stronger or faster to make up for it.

With how minimal the differences between Echo Fighters and their base counterparts are, I actually doubt we'll be getting that many, but we'll just have to wait and see. They are pretty much just clones as we've always known them, at least based on what info we have so far.

Inawordyes

It looks like any of the clones released before SM4SH aren't considered Echoes because they all received moveset changes over the course of the series or the fighter they're originally based on has, meaning there's not much of an "echo" anymore. Whereas Lucina and Dark Pit had basically one or two changes (as mentioned above), and Daisy is only minorly different from what we've seen so far. Since basically the entire SM4SH roster was carried over and making way for 7 missing vets and 2+ newcomers, not making many changes to them makes sense to leave them as they are instead of Luigifying them as has been done with everybody else.

But the way Sakurai approached the concept and revealed Daisy left it open for more, so I don't think the trio are the only Echoes we'll have in the game.

Arcadenik

The term "Echo Fighter" is just an euphemism for "last-minute filler clone".

Luigi, Dr. Mario, Pichu, Falco, Young Link, Ganondorf, and Roy started out as Echo Fighters but now they are all semi-clones (semi-echo?).

Lucas, Toon Link, and Wolf never started out as Echo Fighters. They were semi-clones from the start.

Lucina, Dark Pit, and now Daisy are the only Echo Fighters (for now). Poor Alph… he never became an Echo Fighter or even an semi-clone with Rock Pikmin.

jaco!

I agree with the others that have said Shadow.
After hearing of the echo characters, as soon as I saw Knuckles as an assist trophy, I thought Shadow was a lock.

Sheng Long

Possible echoes that I can see:

Dr. Luigi (Luigi)
Birdo (Yoshi)
Baby Mario Bros. (Ice Climbers)
Funky Kong (Donkey Kong)
Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong)
Gooey (Kirby)
Dark Meta Knight (Meta Knight)
Galacta Knight (Meta Knight)
Toon Zelda (Zelda)
Tetra (Sheik)
Impa (Sheik)
Ghirahim (Ganondorf)
Blaziken (Lucario)
Zoroark (Lucario)
Dark Samus (Samus)
Federation Force (Samus)
Chrom (Ike)
Slippy Frog (Fox)
Leon Powalski (Falco)
Panther (Wolf)
Black Shadow (Captain Falcon)
Ninten (Ness)
Claus (Lucas)
Giygas (Mewtwo)
Alph (Olimar)
Isabelle (Villager)
Octoling (Inkling)
Urban Champion (Little Mac)
Shadow (Sonic)
Akuma (Ryu)
Ms. Pac-Man (Pac-Man)
Jeanne (Bayonetta)

SonicMario

Here's a list of potential Echo characters that might be possible. Not saying all of these will make it. But I could see one or two of these happening.

Funky Kong (DK)
Dark Samus (Samus)
Ninten (Ness)
Blood Falcon (Captain Falcon)
Impa (Sheik)
Chrom (Ike? 2nd Echo Marth?)
Dixie (Diddy Kong)
Shadow (Sonic)
Classic Sonic (Sonic)
Metal Sonic (Sonic)
Isabelle (Villager)
Viridi (Palutena)
Ken (Ryu)
Zack Fair (Cloud)
Jeanne (Bayonetta)
Octolings (Inklings)

Some of these ideas have different proportions from the character they're based off of (Ex: Classic Sonic and Viridi are both much shorter to Sonic and Palutena). But just in case Echo characters aren't necessarily limited by size. I thought I'd bring them up anyway.

CroonerMike

Black bull would make an awesome Falcon Echo.

Inawordyes

I would actually be lowkey lit to see Anthony Higgs as a Samus Echo with ice moves instead of fire.

dahuterschuter

It means hopefully Ken as an Echo Fighter to Ryu.

magiciandude

I agree with those who mention Shadow being a likely echo character given Knuckles is now the AT for the Sonic universe. Not to mention:

Shadow was the only playable character who wasn't Sonic or the Avatar in Forces to get his own DLC stage.
The new Team Sonic Racing has Sonic and Shadow squaring each other off.

KatKit

"Echo" characters?

Dark Samus confirmed.

CaptainAmerica

I would totally take a Tails echo of Sonic. It seems like the best way to stuff him in, and I'd love it. I doubt there'll be too many more than two more though.

I'm also noticing that YL/Pichu are *not* considered echoes. This seems cool...

Robertman2

I just want Metal Sonic

Only for an excuse to have the Stardust Speedway music show up

Starbound

Made a list of what I consider to be likely echo characters:

- Chrom (Ike or Roy) - Robin's Final Smash wasn't shown unlike most characters, so he's MIA right now.
- Shadow (Sonic) - seems to be replaced by Knuckles as an AT?
- Funky Kong (Donkey Kong) - surfboard could be incorporated as an entry and through taunts
- Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong) - unless they do weird stuff with the rocket move, it doesn't seem totally likely)
- Toon Zelda (Zelda) - unless Echoes have to be literal body swaps, this could work as Phantom Zelda is more of a Toon thing
- Impa (Sheik) - Every major Zelda release has character representation except for Skyward, so this could be an option
- Dark Samus (Samus) - If we can have 3 Links, I don't know why we can't have 3 Samus.
- Medusa (Palutena) - These two are literal opposites in terms of characters so it could work thematically as well.
- Celica (Robin) - Swap weapon use mechanic for Pichu's recoil mechanic and it's basically Celica once the tomes are recolored
- Isabelle (Villager) - I thought I heard she was still an AT, but she's super popular and this is a great way to get her into the roster otherwise

Thirdkoopa

Made a list of what I consider to be likely echo characters:
- Chrom (Ike or Roy) - Robin's Final Smash wasn't shown unlike most characters, so he's MIA right now.
- Shadow (Sonic) - seems to be replaced by Knuckles as an AT?
- Funky Kong (Donkey Kong) - surfboard could be incorporated as an entry and through taunts
- Dixie Kong (Diddy Kong) - unless they do weird stuff with the rocket move, it doesn't seem totally likely)
- Toon Zelda (Zelda) - unless Echoes have to be literal body swaps, this could work as Phantom Zelda is more of a Toon thing
- Impa (Sheik) - Every major Zelda release has character representation except for Skyward, so this could be an option
- Dark Samus (Samus) - If we can have 3 Links, I don't know why we can't have 3 Samus.
- Medusa (Palutena) - These two are literal opposites in terms of characters so it could work thematically as well.
- Celica (Robin) - Swap weapon use mechanic for Pichu's recoil mechanic and it's basically Celica once the tomes are recolored
- Isabelle (Villager) - I thought I heard she was still an AT, but she's super popular and this is a great way to get her into the roster otherwise

I like this list and am down for anyone from it.

Zinith

I know it's a little off the wall but Boshi for Yoshi

Diaz Thuskultor

How Easy is It to Make Echo Characters

"Echo Characters"

Zinith

Yoshi is Thicc in S P I R I T

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